From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Mon Sep 5 10:09:26 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Mon Sep 5 10:10:22 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Tomorrow's call Message-ID: <431C5196.6070102@za.uni-koeln.de> Dear all, please remember that we have scheduled a call for tomorrow, September 6th. As Mari just reminded me, I was going for the time trap again. The call will start at 10am Michigan time, which is 2pm GMT, 4pm CET and 5pm Finnish time. Again, if you cannot make it, drop me a line, Oliver. -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za From reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch Tue Sep 6 05:12:44 2005 From: reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch (Reto Hadorn) Date: Tue Sep 6 05:13:58 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Date for conference call and homework Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20050906111203.01fba700@webmail.unine.ch> Dear Oliver, dear... all others, Thank you for your preparation work. I think it is useful to use the framework proposed by the SRG to present what we have done. My main concern is the 'Br4ief verbal presentation of solutions', where you write the following: "The Comparative Data Group does not propose specific elements or attributes to solve the shortcomings of the DDI-standard so far. This is due to the fact that (a) DDI already includes a great deal of elements and attributes that can be used for the documentation of comparisons and (b) the redesign of the standard along a live-cycle model including its modularization open greater possibilities of repeating entire blocks of information that are needed for comparison. " Actually, there are two sets of elements and attributes worked out by members of the group, Achim Wackerow and myself. I think that this is the place where the proposals should be mentioned formally with a short summary. Data elements are clearly proposed in both proposals, which deserve to be referred to explicitly. In addition, the reasons supposed to explain that no concrete proposal is made would not be in my view good reasons for not presenting any concrete proposal. I propose that a summary of each proposal is added to on page 6 (see text in green color). I did formulate it for my own proposal and would suggest that Achim does it for his own proposal. Hear you soon... Reto At 31.08.2005, you wrote: >Dear all, > >after some of you have gotten back to me with the request to organize the >conference call next Tuesday, we will do so. Contact me in case you are >not available, otherwise your name will be on the list going out to the >University of Michigan. > >I have attached a little homework for you ;-) >Or better, I have compiled the topics that have come up in the various >discussions and papers over the past month and have brought them into some >kind of order. My summary is fit into the DDI-Alliance change manual >framework, so the major sections match the guidelines. As you will note >its a draft and several sections are empty. We will have to discuss what >to fill in and how. So I would propose to go through the paper step by >step and check what is needed and which changes have to be made to the draft. > >Talk to you soon, >yours Oliver. > >-- > >GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) > Oliver Watteler, M.A. > > Dokumentation und Archivierung > /Documentation and Archiving > > Bachemer Str.40 > 50931 K?ln > Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 > FAX :++49-221-47694-44 > Web :http://www.gesis.org/za > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >DDI-CDG mailing list >DDI-CDG@icpsr.umich.edu >http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-cdg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Proposal_draft version 1_31082005.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 59392 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050906/3d7fe661/Proposal_draftversion1_31082005-0001.obj From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Tue Sep 6 07:46:49 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Tue Sep 6 07:47:38 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] [Fwd: some comments] Message-ID: <431D81A9.8040601@za.uni-koeln.de> Dear all! over the past days I have received three reactions to the draft of our proposal. Reto has sent his around already. This one below is from Wendy and there is a third one from Meinhard, which I attach to this mail (I hope that's o.k. Wendy?). It is the proposal with some remarks. To structure today's discussion I would suggest to have each respondent explain a little about his comments. This will probably cover a lot of the problems. After that I would like to see whether there are any points missing and how we can formulate stuff. 1. Replies (in alphabetical order) - Meinhard - Reto - Wendy 2. Open items in the paper I will collect your suggestions, work them into the draft and send it around asap. I would also like to propose another call early next week to go through those changes and see that we get the proposal done. This does not mean that we have to put a halt to ideas and thoughts, all the contrary. The finished model by the SRD will be fed to the Alliance for decision and we will see, if it fits all ours needs (save the whales, ban nuclear arms, you know ;-). Just kidding! Talk to you soon, Oliver. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: some comments Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:21:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Wendy Thomas To: Oliver Watteler Hi Oliver, You'll be happy to know you have me "laboring" on Labor Day :-) I've been reading through your document. You did a great job of filtering and sorting out all of these discussions. A couple of comments: 1) I've attached the current drafts of the documentation suggestion for time and geography. These are the reusable classes available in all modules. Take a look and a) check to see that containers for descrete information needed by the comparative group are covered, and b) what types of links (pointers) need to be in specific modules are needed to make use of these. For example you note some specific comparative time/geography issues...what types of special information or identifer is needed in the main module that can be linked to the geography or time classes. My impression is that the comparative group is going to be primarily concerned (in terms of elements/attributes) with making sure the variables, geogrpahy, time, and instrument are completely and accurately defined. The issue they becomes how comparision aspects are expressed. Does this become a separate module? I think, in terms of "life cycle" and wanting to make as few changes to "persistent" sections, that a "comparison" module (or probably the "grouping" module) is most appropriate. It would need to point to questions, variables, and methodology information in other modules and then contain "comparative" information. What is this comparative information? Link between 2 or more like items (variable a to variable b) Type of relationship: equivilent parent | child | sibling | component part | ?? Use of the relationship used for joining (time, geography, responseUnit to responseUnit) used in composed variable used in a recode It seems from both conference call discussions, email (both on and off the list) and outside discussions, that we will end up using a combined hierarchical and pointer system to reflect multiple hierarchies. While there is some desire to make a choice between the two (the choice would ahve to be pointer since we don't deal with clean hierarchies), but it is probably more pragmatic to do a combined. A question for you...since I don't want to throw a wrench in the works...would it be feasible to create a section in the "grouping" module that desribes the multiple hierarchical relationships and their relationships in a consistant way (rather than specifically nesting concept or other modules). Just a thought. I guess in effect that makes the whole thing a pointer system, but it does allow for clear mapping of simple hierarchies in a single place rather than having to traverse the document as a whole. And finally, identification of what must be machine actionable and what can/should be human readable. Sometimes both are required, sometimes one will do. Wendy Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389 Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375 Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt@pop.umn.edu University of Minnesota 50 Willey Hall 225 19th Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55455 -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Geography_09_02_2005.xls Type: application/octet-stream Size: 20992 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050906/eda8156e/Geography_09_02_2005-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Time_08_26_2005.xls Type: application/octet-stream Size: 21504 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050906/eda8156e/Time_08_26_2005-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Proposal_draft version 1_31082005_mm.doc Type: application/msword Size: 59904 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050906/eda8156e/Proposal_draftversion1_31082005_mm-0001.doc From sandai at icpsr.umich.edu Tue Sep 6 10:44:35 2005 From: sandai at icpsr.umich.edu (Sanda Ionescu) Date: Tue Sep 6 10:48:55 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] URL for the revisions manual Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20050906104358.01c66008@icpsr.umich.edu> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/org/Revisions-Manual8-15-05.pdf Sanda Ionescu, Research Associate Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR) The University of Michigan P.O. Box 1248 Ann Arbor, MI 48106 Phone: (734) 615-7890 Fax: (734) 615-7890 (734) 647-8200 From pheus at worldbank.org Tue Sep 6 11:07:39 2005 From: pheus at worldbank.org (pheus@worldbank.org) Date: Tue Sep 6 11:14:05 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Electronic Questionnaire Markup Language (EQML) Message-ID: Dear all: I was recently doing some research on the web for PDA based questionnaire/data entry applications and found the attached paper presented by the Centro Centroamericano de Poblacion, Universidad de Costa Rica at a recent conference. The document reviews existing commercial solutions and, not having found one that answered their requirements, describes the custom software package they have implemented. In such process, they have created, after an extensive review of surveys, an XML specification called "Electronic Questionnaire Markup Language" to capture question information, flow and validation/control. This seems like a very interesting thing for us too look at in the context of DDI 3.x. The schema or the application do not seem to be available on-line at this time, I will contact the authors for further information and will keep you posted. For the curious, the web site (en espanol) is accessible at: http://ns.ccp.ucr.ac.cr/eqsoftware/ regards, Pascal Heus The World Bank, Development Data Group Phone 1-202-473-3773 Fax 1-202-522-3669 EMail pheus@worldbank.org (See attached file: pdapaav5.pdf) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pdapaav5.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 704074 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050906/00359cb2/pdapaav5-0001.pdf From reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch Tue Sep 6 22:59:43 2005 From: reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch (Reto Hadorn) Date: Tue Sep 6 23:00:48 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Work of SRG Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050907045554.01f62f18@webmail.unine.ch> Hi Oliver, I would appreciate if you could give us a summary of the issues concerning the comparative datasets, which were discussed at the SRG telephone conferences; or which statements where made there about modelling the comparative thing. This would help us knowing where we stand. Are minutes of those conferences available? Is Ezboard still working? I was rejected with the information, that the DDI group requires membership... Best wishes Reto Reto Hadorn SIDOS Swiss Information and Data Archive Service For the Social Sciences, Neuch?tel +41 32 721 20 03 From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Wed Sep 7 03:47:49 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Wed Sep 7 03:48:34 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Conference call next week Message-ID: <431E9B25.70808@za.uni-koeln.de> Dear all! While I'm still working on the minutes, I would like to ask you to check your agendas for next Wednesday, September 14th, 2pm GMT. This was the most convenient date for those who were on the yesterday's call. Please contact me asap if you cannot participate, since I have to make reservations with the ICPSR. Thank you. Greetings, Oliver. -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Wed Sep 7 05:31:22 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Wed Sep 7 05:32:07 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Yesterday's minutes Message-ID: <431EB36A.3030201@za.uni-koeln.de> Dear all! The minutes of yesterday's call are on the website: . Please check, if I have gotten everything right. Greetings, Oliver. -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za From pascal.heus at gmail.com Tue Sep 13 22:52:36 2005 From: pascal.heus at gmail.com (Pascal Heus) Date: Tue Sep 13 22:54:17 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] DTD and docs on Electronic Questionnaire Markup Language (EQML) Message-ID: <43279074.4040404@gmail.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Eqml20alfa.zip Type: application/zip Size: 422987 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050913/597fff18/Eqml20alfa-0001.zip -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Censo2000.zip Type: application/zip Size: 184898 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050913/597fff18/Censo2000-0001.zip From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Wed Sep 14 02:29:15 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Wed Sep 14 02:30:07 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Reminder conference call Message-ID: <4327C33B.1080403@za.uni-koeln.de> Dear all! I just wanted to remind you about our call today. It will be held at 2pm GMT (the regular time, you know ;). Several of you have contacted me about being unavailable or staying at home. I hope I have everything right. Talk to you this afternoon (or morning), yours Oliver. -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za From reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch Wed Sep 14 05:34:25 2005 From: reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch (Reto Hadorn) Date: Wed Sep 14 05:35:39 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Proposal in Excel format Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050914112446.02003d18@webmail.unine.ch> Hi all, As requested by Wendy at our last TC, I have put the proposal into an Excel sheet, in the format defined in the manual. Of course, the proposal is not fully understandable without the reference to the other documents. Til later Reto Reto Hadorn SIDOS Swiss Information and Data Archive Service For the Social Sciences, Neuch?tel +41 32 721 20 03 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RC-NS.xls Type: application/octet-stream Size: 40448 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050914/1e5738dd/RC-NS-0001.obj From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Wed Sep 14 10:38:20 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Wed Sep 14 10:39:13 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Conference call doesn't work Message-ID: <432835DC.2050407@za.uni-koeln.de> To all of you who are waiting! I haven't been called so far by UoM's call center, but I think that's not too bad, since Reto has provided us with a lot of food for thought, which I at least have to digest first. How about postponing the call to next Tuesday? Until then we can gather comments and questions. Oliver. -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za From sandai at icpsr.umich.edu Wed Sep 14 11:30:01 2005 From: sandai at icpsr.umich.edu (Sanda Ionescu) Date: Wed Sep 14 11:53:19 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Longitudinal data proposal Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20050914110140.01d51ea0@icpsr.umich.edu> Hi, all. I am hereby submitting to the SRG a proposal for marking up longitudinal data in DDI Version 3.0. Please find attached the required supporting documents - a modeling spreadsheet (with two sheets) and the accompanying explanation/argumentation in word format. My proposal arose from concrete needs experienced in working with longitudinal data, and may not fit neatly in any of the working group agendas. While I was mainly working from the complex files perspective, I am aware that at least parts of it might overlap with the efforts of the comparative data group, whom I am also copying on this message. Thank you for your consideration. Sanda. Sanda Ionescu, Research Associate Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR) The University of Michigan P.O. Box 1248 Ann Arbor, MI 48106 Phone: (734) 615-7890 Fax: (734) 615-7890 (734) 647-8200 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: LongDataSpreadsheet.xls Type: application/octet-stream Size: 22016 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050914/257f262c/LongDataSpreadsheet-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DDI_LongDataProposal_REV.doc Type: application/msword Size: 33280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050914/257f262c/DDI_LongDataProposal_REV-0001.doc From ikuoikuo at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 14:02:45 2005 From: ikuoikuo at gmail.com (I-Lin Kuo) Date: Thu Sep 15 08:03:03 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Re: [DDI-SRG] Longitudinal data proposal In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20050914110140.01d51ea0@icpsr.umich.edu> References: <6.0.1.1.2.20050914110140.01d51ea0@icpsr.umich.edu> Message-ID: <85ef306905091411021ce3fdf6@mail.gmail.com> Hi Sanda, I have a question: "It will also be necessary to identify, for each variable, the respondent, analysis unit, universe, and certainly the physical data file containing the variable. " What's "the respondent"? I'm confused because the other things mentioned, "analysis unit", etc., are "variable-wide", so to speak, but my understanding of "the respondent" is that it pertains only to a single record, so wouldn't be a comparison criteria. From wlt at pop.umn.edu Thu Sep 15 10:25:15 2005 From: wlt at pop.umn.edu (Wendy Thomas) Date: Thu Sep 15 10:25:44 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Re: [DDI-SRG] Longitudinal data proposal In-Reply-To: <85ef306905091411021ce3fdf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sanda, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the answer to I-Lin's question is that in a longitudianal study the respondent can change over time, particularly if the the sample is one of households where a different person might respond from month to month or year to year. Wendy On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, I-Lin Kuo wrote: > Hi Sanda, > > I have a question: > > "It will also be necessary to identify, for each variable, the > respondent, analysis unit, universe, and certainly the physical data > file containing the variable. " > > What's "the respondent"? I'm confused because the other things > mentioned, "analysis unit", etc., are "variable-wide", so to speak, > but my understanding of "the respondent" is that it pertains only to a > single record, so wouldn't be a comparison criteria. > > _______________________________________________ > DDI-CDG mailing list > DDI-CDG@icpsr.umich.edu > http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-cdg > Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389 Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375 Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt@pop.umn.edu University of Minnesota 50 Willey Hall 225 19th Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55455 From sandai at icpsr.umich.edu Thu Sep 15 10:40:45 2005 From: sandai at icpsr.umich.edu (Sanda Ionescu) Date: Thu Sep 15 10:40:54 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Fwd: Re: [DDI-SRG] Longitudinal data proposal Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20050915103940.01c8ecb8@icpsr.umich.edu> > >Wendy, > >Sure, the respondent can change over time, but I've actually seen more >than one respondent on the same record (same dataset, same year, etc.) >I have already replied to I-Lin, here's what I wrote to him (sorry I did >not realize he had copied all these groups, so I should have replied to all): > > >>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:27:15 -0400 >>To: ikuoikuo@gmail.com >>From: Sanda Ionescu >>Subject: Re: [DDI-SRG] Longitudinal data proposal >>Bcc: maryv@icpsr.umich.edu >> >>Hi, I-Lin. >> >>No, respondent too is "variable-wide", to put it in your words. >>We can have on the same record questions that were asked about, say, >>"person X" both FROM >> person X herself and, for example, a relative or somebody else who >> knows this person or even the interviewer. >>That is not even an issue as far as my proposal is concerned because we >>have a child-element of variable right now, in V 2.0, that covers for >>this type of info -it's >>respUnit (def: Provides information regarding who provided the >>information contained within the variable, e.g., respondent, proxy, >>interviewer.) >> >>Also, respondent is definitely a comparison criterion - and a very >>important one ! >> >>So what I'm assuming is that we will somehow be able to extract the type >>of info I'm listing in your quote below (respUnit, anlysUnit, universe, etc) >>directly from the variable description bec. we already have tags that >>contain this type of info. >> >>Cheers. >>Sanda. >> >>p.s. any news on the SSVD project? >> >> >> >> >>At 02:02 PM 9/14/2005, you wrote: >>>Hi Sanda, >>> >>>I have a question: >>> >>>"It will also be necessary to identify, for each variable, the >>>respondent, analysis unit, universe, and certainly the physical data >>>file containing the variable. " >>> >>>What's "the respondent"? I'm confused because the other things >>>mentioned, "analysis unit", etc., are "variable-wide", so to speak, >>>but my understanding of "the respondent" is that it pertains only to a >>>single record, so wouldn't be a comparison criteria. >> >> >> >>Sanda Ionescu, >>Research Associate >>Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR) >>The University of Michigan >>P.O. Box 1248 >>Ann Arbor, MI 48106 >> >>Phone: (734) 615-7890 >>Fax: (734) 615-7890 >> (734) 647-8200 > > > >Sanda Ionescu, >Research Associate >Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR) >The University of Michigan >P.O. Box 1248 >Ann Arbor, MI 48106 > >Phone: (734) 615-7890 >Fax: (734) 615-7890 > (734) 647-8200 Sanda Ionescu, Research Associate Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR) The University of Michigan P.O. Box 1248 Ann Arbor, MI 48106 Phone: (734) 615-7890 Fax: (734) 615-7890 (734) 647-8200 From ikuoikuo at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 12:39:39 2005 From: ikuoikuo at gmail.com (I-Lin Kuo) Date: Thu Sep 15 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Re: [DDI-SRG] Longitudinal data proposal In-Reply-To: References: <85ef306905091411021ce3fdf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <85ef30690509150939dea4bf8@mail.gmail.com> Both Wendy and Sanda's answers have clarified things somewhat for me. The hypothetical situation is almost what Wendy mentioned -- I'm thinking about a household survey where you go and ask questions about the income, education, age, and race of the head of household. If that person is there, then they answer the question themselves. If that person isn't there, then the question is asked of someone else in the household. This information might be recorded in 2 or more ways: A) 5 variables: age, inc, educ, race, and relationship_of_respondent_to_head_of_household. B) 9 variables: age_according_to_hoh, inc_according_to_hoh, educ_according_to_hoh, race_according_to_hoh, age_according_to_resp, inc_according_to_resp, educ_according_to_resp, race_according_to_resp, relationship_of_respondent_to_hoh. In the first way, the "respondent" is not well-defined variable-wide and is unsuitable as a comparison criteria, while in the second way, the "respondent" is well-defined as either "hoh" or "proxy" for all records. The second type of recording seems very unusual to me... There are other longitudinal studies like Wisconsin Longitudinal Study where in one wave, the respondent is asked to evaluate themselves and in a separate wave, a sibling or parent is asked to evaluate the original respondent. In these type of studies, the "respondent" is also a well-defined comparison criteria, and perhaps this is the kind of study Sanda had in mind. On 9/15/05, Wendy Thomas wrote: > Sanda, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the answer to I-Lin's > question is that in a longitudianal study the respondent can change over > time, particularly if the the sample is one of households where a > different person might respond from month to month or year to year. From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Fri Sep 16 10:04:49 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Fri Sep 16 10:05:43 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Call next Tuesday Message-ID: <432AD101.60002@za.uni-koeln.de> Dear all! After the last call did not really work out, we will try again on Tuesday September 20th 2pm GMT, as I announced Wednesday evening. We now have Reto's proposal to discuss and I will revise the CDG draft. Have a nice week-end, yours Oliver. -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za From reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch Fri Sep 16 11:05:15 2005 From: reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch (Reto Hadorn) Date: Fri Sep 16 11:06:20 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Conference call doesn't work Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20050916162000.01f773c8@webmail.unine.ch> Dear all, At the last telephone conference, Wendy has underscored that the SRG expects nicely formatted data element lists to consider proposals for extension. You know how I think about simple lists: it is important to share concepts in the first place. So I started with the concepts, and forgot a bit of the list. Wendy put me back on the SRG track and I worked out the Excel list. You got it already; I attach it to this message again. Actually , it is just an annex to the kind of document form, which Oliver has completed and submitted to discussion. Working on the data elements, I was disturbed by some discrepancies between the text prepared by Oliver for the group proposal and the approach I have chosen to take. I think that this is due to the fact that Oliver covers all issues considered in the group in various conferences, meetings and settings. On the other hand, I make epistemological and methodological choices in my proposal, which don't support some of the approaches considered in Oliver's paper. The text we have discussed in the last TC is actually a good summary report of all the considerations that were expressed in the group. In this form, it is not a proposal yet; the first version appropriately stated that no specific metadata elements could be proposed. The demand I made to Oliver, to include the Wackarow wrapper and my RC-NS proposals was inappropriate; sorry for that. In any case, the RC-NS idea gives flesh only to a part of the ideas considered in the group. So, I have gone through the template, and completed the various topics so they are congruent with the RC-NS proposal and its postulates, in the first place to know how it would look like. It is presented as a proposal produced (funded) by SIDOS and the MetaDater. The members of the CDG come to play as sponsors; I actually felt interest for the proposal, so I just took the full list of members as sponsoring partners, as Oliver did. If some of you think the proposal is not appropriate, they can request to be withdrawn from the list. In my view, this does not imply that no other proposal formulated in the group can be sponsored: in my view, the field is complex enough to make it reasonable to sponsor more than one proposal! Nothing in the Alliance rules seems to oppose to that. Hence my proposal: I deposit the RC-NS proposal in a consistent form, and Oliver delivers his overview report. I did not hear about Joachim, who sits in the SRG anyway... Reto P.S. By the way, there is nothing new, neither in the Excel file or in the proposal attached. I have just transferred the information from pages 50 and ff. from the general text to the sheet, to comply with the CDG standard... The rest of the package: http://info1.za.uni-koeln.de/ddicdg/documents/RCNS_050706.zip At 14.09.2005, you wrote: >To all of you who are waiting! > >I haven't been called so far by UoM's call center, but I think that's not >too bad, since Reto has provided us with a lot of food for thought, which >I at least have to digest first. How about postponing the call to next >Tuesday? Until then we can gather comments and questions. > >Oliver. > >-- > >GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) > Oliver Watteler, M.A. > > Dokumentation und Archivierung > /Documentation and Archiving > > Bachemer Str.40 > 50931 K?ln > Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 > FAX :++49-221-47694-44 > Web :http://www.gesis.org/za > > > > >_______________________________________________ >DDI-CDG mailing list >DDI-CDG@icpsr.umich.edu >http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-cdg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RC-NS.xls Type: application/octet-stream Size: 40448 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050916/97cd8524/RC-NS-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RC-NS_Proposal.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 54784 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050916/97cd8524/RC-NS_Proposal-0001.obj From peterg at icpsr.umich.edu Mon Sep 19 17:44:58 2005 From: peterg at icpsr.umich.edu (Peter Granda) Date: Mon Sep 19 17:45:05 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Conference call doesn't work In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20050916162000.01f773c8@webmail.unine.ch> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20050916162000.01f773c8@webmail.unine.ch> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20050919171318.02e43338@icpsr.umich.edu> Greetings, all! Unfortunately I have another meeting at 10 tomorrow (Tuesday) and won't be able to join. I only wanted to make two points: 1) It does not hurt to remind ourselves that we need to deliver something by the end of the month to the SRG. Unless we plan to make significant changes in the next week, I propose that we send them the RC-NS proposal and spreadsheet along with Oliver's overview. These documents will at least provide them with the status of the group's efforts to date. 2) I think the we are still far off from the separate module that Wendy suggests. As noted in the spreadsheet, "revising the DDI for more complex datasets cannot be solely done [by] adding new elements, as implied in the update procedure, but supposes deeper revision of the concepts." If CDG needs cannot be met until this revision occurs, we should inform and involve the other working groups as soon as possible. Peter At 11:05 AM 9/16/2005, you wrote: >Dear all, > > >At the last telephone conference, Wendy has underscored that the SRG >expects nicely formatted data element lists to consider proposals for >extension. You know how I think about simple lists: it is important to >share concepts in the first place. So I started with the concepts, and >forgot a bit of the list. > >Wendy put me back on the SRG track and I worked out the Excel list. You >got it already; I attach it to this message again. Actually , it is just >an annex to the kind of document form, which Oliver has completed and >submitted to discussion. > >Working on the data elements, I was disturbed by some discrepancies >between the text prepared by Oliver for the group proposal and the >approach I have chosen to take. I think that this is due to the fact that >Oliver covers all issues considered in the group in various conferences, >meetings and settings. On the other hand, I make epistemological and >methodological choices in my proposal, which don't support some of the >approaches considered in Oliver's paper. > >The text we have discussed in the last TC is actually a good summary >report of all the considerations that were expressed in the group. In this >form, it is not a proposal yet; the first version appropriately stated >that no specific metadata elements could be proposed. The demand I made to >Oliver, to include the Wackarow wrapper and my RC-NS proposals was >inappropriate; sorry for that. In any case, the RC-NS idea gives flesh >only to a part of the ideas considered in the group. > > >So, I have gone through the template, and completed the various topics so >they are congruent with the RC-NS proposal and its postulates, in the >first place to know how it would look like. It is presented as a proposal >produced (funded) by SIDOS and the MetaDater. The members of the CDG come >to play as sponsors; I actually felt interest for the proposal, so I just >took the full list of members as sponsoring partners, as Oliver did. If >some of you think the proposal is not appropriate, they can request to be >withdrawn from the list. In my view, this does not imply that no other >proposal formulated in the group can be sponsored: in my view, the field >is complex enough to make it reasonable to sponsor more than one proposal! >Nothing in the Alliance rules seems to oppose to that. > >Hence my proposal: I deposit the RC-NS proposal in a consistent form, and >Oliver delivers his overview report. I did not hear about Joachim, who >sits in the SRG anyway... > > >Reto > > >P.S. By the way, there is nothing new, neither in the Excel file or in the >proposal attached. I have just transferred the information from pages 50 >and ff. from the general text to the sheet, to comply with the CDG standard... > >The rest of the package: >http://info1.za.uni-koeln.de/ddicdg/documents/RCNS_050706.zip > > >At 14.09.2005, you wrote: >>To all of you who are waiting! >> >>I haven't been called so far by UoM's call center, but I think that's not >>too bad, since Reto has provided us with a lot of food for thought, which >>I at least have to digest first. How about postponing the call to next >>Tuesday? Until then we can gather comments and questions. >> >>Oliver. >> >>-- >> >>GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) >> Oliver Watteler, M.A. >> >> Dokumentation und Archivierung >> /Documentation and Archiving >> >> Bachemer Str.40 >> 50931 K?ln >> Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 >> FAX :++49-221-47694-44 >> Web :http://www.gesis.org/za >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>DDI-CDG mailing list >>DDI-CDG@icpsr.umich.edu >>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-cdg > > > >_______________________________________________ >DDI-CDG mailing list >DDI-CDG@icpsr.umich.edu >http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-cdg From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Tue Sep 20 09:49:57 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Tue Sep 20 09:51:03 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Content of draft in life-cycle Message-ID: <43301385.7060706@za.uni-koeln.de> Dear all! 5 minutes before the call I send you an Excel-sheet holding all questions and items that are in the draft version 1 on page 3-5. It was requested that this section should be more in line with the life-cycle model. If agreed, I will work this into the draft proposal version 2. We will talk about Reto's proposal and how to deal with it. Talk to you ... in an instance, Oliver. -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Overview of guiding questions for proposal.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 19456 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050920/d854010b/Overviewofguidingquestionsforproposal-0001.xls From reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch Tue Sep 20 10:27:18 2005 From: reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch (Reto Hadorn) Date: Tue Sep 20 10:27:37 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Is there any TC ? Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20050920162536.01ef8c98@webmail.unine.ch> Hi all, Is there a TC? I have sent a message to Oliver, without any success. His phone is busy, which is actually normal if the TC takes place. Other people in my case, not having been called? Best wishes Reto Reto Hadorn SIDOS Swiss Information and Data Archive Service For the Social Sciences, Neuch?tel +41 32 721 20 03 From wlt at pop.umn.edu Tue Sep 20 10:33:23 2005 From: wlt at pop.umn.edu (Wendy Thomas) Date: Tue Sep 20 10:34:03 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Is there any TC ? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20050920162536.01ef8c98@webmail.unine.ch> Message-ID: Reto She should be calling you in a few minutes...There was a misunderstanding Wendy On Tue, 20 Sep 2005, Reto Hadorn wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > Is there a TC? I have sent a message to Oliver, without any success. His > phone is busy, which is actually normal if the TC takes place. > > Other people in my case, not having been called? > > > Best wishes > > Reto > > > > > > Reto Hadorn > > SIDOS > > Swiss Information and Data Archive Service > For the Social Sciences, Neuchâtel > > +41 32 721 20 03 > > > _______________________________________________ > DDI-CDG mailing list > DDI-CDG@icpsr.umich.edu > http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-cdg > Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389 Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375 Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt@pop.umn.edu University of Minnesota 50 Willey Hall 225 19th Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55455 From watteler at za.uni-koeln.de Tue Sep 20 12:07:41 2005 From: watteler at za.uni-koeln.de (Oliver Watteler) Date: Tue Sep 20 12:08:48 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] Proposal draft version 2 Message-ID: <433033CD.4010007@za.uni-koeln.de> Dear all, please find attached the version 2 of the proposal draft (summary) for our group. One section was "outhoused" into an Excel spread-sheet. This spread-sheet can be taken as a framework for brainwriting activities, if you like, since it is far from being complete. We have decided today to follow Reto's idea and hand in this summary described above and his proposal that he sent around in a condensed version a few days ago. I will prepare the minutes of today's call for next week, because I'm on my way to the Mediterranean. Please send any comments, additions or questions to Meinhard. We will stay in touch via e-mail. Greetings from Cologne, Oliver. P.S.: I will work on the formulations in the proposal before handing it in, so all the blue spots will have gone by then. -- GESIS - Zentralarchiv f?r Empirische Sozialforschung (ZA) Oliver Watteler, M.A. Dokumentation und Archivierung /Documentation and Archiving Bachemer Str.40 50931 K?ln Tel.:++49-221-47694-76 FAX :++49-221-47694-44 Web :http://www.gesis.org/za -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Proposal_draft version 2_20092005.doc Type: application/msword Size: 49152 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050920/48f9da40/Proposal_draftversion2_20092005-0001.doc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Section on working steps and life-cycle details_20092005.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 19456 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/pipermail/ddi-cdg/attachments/20050920/48f9da40/Sectiononworkingstepsandlife-cycledetails_20092005-0001.xls From reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch Sun Sep 25 21:48:14 2005 From: reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch (Reto Hadorn) Date: Sun Sep 25 21:55:21 2005 Subject: [DDI-CDG] RC-NS Proposal - New version Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20050926034536.01f167b0@webmail.unine.ch> Hi all, Here an updated version of the proposal text, which was a very first draft in the preceding version. Thanks to Meinhard for his comments and suggestions. I will be back in about 2 weeks. Best wishes Reto Reto Hadorn SIDOS Swiss Information and Data Archive Service For the Social Sciences, Neuch?tel +41 32 721 20 03