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Comments w/in (others, please comment as well; the most significant item
starts w/a *** below):<br><br>
At 12:59 PM 10/11/2005 -0400, J Gager wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Kate
- </font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Thanks for your comments.
Please see responses below. In general, I didn't think any change
was significant enough to warrant further discussion. If anyone is
still uncomfortable with these changes after this discussion, then we can
schedule another meeting, but time is very very short for me, and the
write ups for this aggregate piece are far more complicated and time
consuming than I anticipated (there are a lot of details that need to be
cleary explained).</font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">J</font><br>
<dl>
<dd><font face="tahoma" size=2>-----Original Message-----<br>
<dd>From:</b> Katherine McNeill-Harman
[<a href="mailto:mcneillh@MIT.EDU" eudora="autourl">mailto:mcneillh@MIT.EDU</a>]
<br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:03 PM<br>
<dd>To:</b> jgager@umich.edu; DDI-ADG<br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [DDI-ADG] Latest Spreadsheet<br><br>
</font>
<dd>J and others,<br><br>
<dd>Have a couple of questions/concerns about this new sheet; would be
interested in others' opinions:<br><br>
<dd>1) Can you explain a bit the reasons for changing the descriptions at
the top of each module sheet? I don't care that we use exactly the
words I drafted, but yours seem to have different meaning and I want to
make sure we're all on the same page. Namely,<br>
<dd>- For modules 2 and 3, you seem to be emphasizing that it's for a
"single nCube structure"--can you expand upon what you mean by
that?<br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF"> </font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">What is meant by this for
module 2 is that the file cannot contain multiple cubes. For
instance if there were 2 cubes, say population by region, gender, and age
(cube 1) and population by region and gender (cube 2), the combination of
these 2 cubes in the data file would look something like
this.</font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">MN
M 50- 5300</font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">MN
M 50+ 6700</font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">MN
M 12000</font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">MN
F 50- 6800</font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">MN
F 50+ 5000</font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">MN
F 11800</font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Module 2 does not support
this. Its intention is describe a file where all rows describe the
same</u> cube data.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">The same thing applies for
module 3, since it is grouped by nCube. You would used module 3 to
describe a single nCube at a time, and not a mix of nCubes and non cubed
data.</font> </blockquote>
</dl><br>
That's more clear, however, in module 2, how would one treat, e.g., a
spreadsheet file containing multiple sheets with a different cube on each
sheet?<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dl>
<dd> <br>
<dd> - Also, I'd like to ask you to consider putting back some of
the wording I'd written for module 3 that makes it clear that the
metadata and data are in one single DDI file; I don't think that comes
across in your phrasing.<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">I think it is too
constricting. It does allow for all to be in one file, but don't we
want to allow the data to also be used this way in a seperate
file?</font></blockquote>
</dl><br>
***I believe that it's only the former, that if it lives in a separate
file it would be under module 1 or 2. Others, please
confirm.<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dl>
<dd> <br>
<dd>- Lastly, for module 1, I believe it'd be helpful to include some
explicit reference to the fact that the external file contains no
metadata (to distinguish it from module 2).<br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF"> </font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">That may be misleading,
since we are saying that attributes can exist in there, which are
technically metadata. The distinction lies in the fact that module
1 data files do not state any of the cube coordinate values in
them.</font></blockquote>
</dl><br>
I can live w/that if others don't have any other suggestions.<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dl>
<dd> <br>
<dd>2) I'm not sure about including only the additions in the first
sheet, as I think the other fields provide helpful context. Might
there be a way to distinguish the new fields (as you had done, e.g.,
w/color) while still keeping all of them?<br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF"> </font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">It was really a time, and
an issue of focusing attention. The model was incomplete to start
with, and the effort of flushing out all existing things from the tag
library, and putting in definitions for them is more work than it would
be worth (in my opinion).</font></blockquote>
</dl><br>
Understand. I'd still lean the other way but will happily go w/the
group concensus.<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dl>
<dd> <br>
<dd>3) Your change to module 1, while I have no objections, seems to be
significant enough that we should discuss it as a group. I don't
quite understand the purpose of this. Is this something you think
you could explain/we could discuss in more detail over email (or maybe
phone)?<br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF"> </font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">The purpose of the change
is to basically not change what is already in place. In speaking
with Wendy, she pointed out how important it is to many people marking up
data files to do so in the order in which the data occurs in the
file. So there may be a mix of cubed and non cubed data.
Further more, module 1 did not allow for any non cubed data (everything
was grouped into a nCube container). The change simply replaced the
inclusion of a data item into an nCube by containership, with inclusion
by reference. The concept we initially had is still there, just
represented differently.</font></blockquote>
</dl><br>
Sounds OK to me; I'll leave others to comment.<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dl>
<dd> <br>
<dd>4) Plus a couple of other questions about the elements:<br>
<dd>-- in describing the attribute location choice, you refer separately
to a data file vs. a spreadsheet. I understand what you're trying
to do, but am a little concerned about the mutually-exclusive manner in
which they're described (b/other places we use the term "data
file" to include all sorts of formats, including spreadsheets, and
think it should still keep that broad meaning). So I'd suggest
changing the terms to say something like "fixed-format/delimited
data file" and "spreadsheet data file" to distinguish the
types to clarify that we consider them both data files.<br>
<dd>- In module 2 F18, what do you mean by " the structure describes
all data and meta data for the cube"--that sounds to me more like
module 3.<br>
<dd>- Module 3 F19; the notes contains a question; can that be deleted or
should it be moved to G19?<br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF"> </font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">I will make these
corrections.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>When I agreed to cancelling today's meeting, I didn't realize that
you'd have such significant changes, so if it's best to discuss these
over the phone, maybe we can arrange another call.<br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF"> </font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Time is VERY
critical. We are presenting this to the SRG in one week, and need
to send this out ASAP. I think the important thing is that we have
something for the group to work with. I just don't have the time to
finish the proposals AND meet.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Kate<br><br>
<dd>P.S. Plus a couple of typos<br>
<dd>- Module 1, F25, should be "measurement"--also applies to
M2 F31<br>
<dd>- Module 1, F20, ID should be capitalized<br>
<dd>- Module 2, F20, should be "coordinates"<br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF"> </font><br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Will fix.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>At 09:29 AM 10/11/2005 -0400, J Gager wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2>All - </font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2>Here is the latest spreadsheet. Note
there are few significant changes that stemmed from a long discussion
Wendy and I had.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2>The first is the Logical sheet. I
have gone back to just including the new fields. I felt it best to
do this, since we weren't changing any existing fields, and I want the
focus to only be on these additions.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2>The second is the Physical Sheets - I have
changed the name of these to Record Layout, since that is what we a truly
representing.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2>Finally, I have changed module 1, to allow
for data items to exist outside of nCubes. Basically what I have
done is create a way to reference an nCube and its attached
attributes. The basic concept that we had originally is still
there, it is just less deviant from the original, and oft used
structure.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2>Please let me know of any structural issues
ASAP as the samples and write up is based on this.</font><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><font face="arial" size=2>J</font><br><br>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>DDI-ADG mailing list<br>
<dd>DDI-ADG@icpsr.umich.edu<br>
<dd><a href="http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-adg" eudora="autourl">http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-adg</a></blockquote><br>
<dd>___________________________________________<br>
<dd>Katherine McNeill-Harman<br>
<dd>Data Services Librarian<br>
<dd>Dewey Library for Management and Social Sciences<br>
<dd>Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
<dd>77 Massachusetts Avenue, E53-100<br>
<dd>Cambridge, MA 02139<br>
<dd>mcneillh@mit.edu<br>
<dd>617-253-0787 <br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
</dl>___________________________________________<br>
Katherine McNeill-Harman<br>
Data Services Librarian<br>
Dewey Library for Management and Social Sciences<br>
Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
77 Massachusetts Avenue, E53-100<br>
Cambridge, MA 02139<br>
mcneillh@mit.edu<br>
617-253-0787</body>
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